@Hitman2016 wrote:
Hitman 2016 Weapon details, critiques and suggestions.
(Post Separated into 2 parts.)
Whenever we go to see films like James Bond, Bourne, John Wick or other clandestine spy/action thrillers, we expect to see the latest and greatest technology from cars, weapons and gadgets, to clothing, watches and even libations (in cases such as the famous Blanton shot in John Wick.) The same is often expected from the Hitman franchise to varying degrees. Some of his weaponry is no exception.
I’d like to take a little more time elaborating upon some of the lack in details with Hitman’s current weapon designs. I’ll recap some of the details forum members have already brought up in other threads, as well as adding some suggestions for possible accessories and upgrades should customization be added to the game. Generic accessories will be inculded in a separate thread should customization be confirmed. I’ve some hands on knowledge that I can offer and hope will be useful to the devs, but everything on here can be Googled (which is why I'm surprised they got so much of it wrong.) I don’t expect the game to be totally reflective of reality (frankly I don't want it to be) and know some liberties must be taken for the sake of balance etc. etc., but I expect it to be better than it is.
Considering that IOI is located in Copenhagen Denmark (a beautiful city btw) where they have incredibly strict gun laws, it comes as no surprise that the weapon designs are as sketchy as they are at present. I’m sure most, if not all of the designers have never held a firearm let alone had one to scan for 3D renderings, so I can sympathize with that and endorse originality. That being said, even living in countries that don't allow the possession of firearms doesn't mean you can't do the research. Like I said, everything here can be Googled. This is especially unforgivable since most of the weapons in the game are clear imitations of their real world counterparts.
- I understand that the weapons in the Hitman franchise have never been very accurate representations of their original counterparts and that some of them are out right fantasy weapons. I do not in any way expect them to put real weapons into the game (I'm pretty sure only Medal of Honor and Modern Warfare were given permission by various weapon manufacturers to do that.) With that said, when the animators take inspiration (or rip offs in some cases) from real weapons I'd expect the end product to be a little more polished, thought out and functionally accurate. At present some of the mistakes made really make IOI's animators look incredibly lazy. Each weapon needs some amount of attention. You really can't have multiple weapons in a game and have the character hold and operate each type exactly the same way without running into problems, even if you're making shoddily designed fantasy weapons. I'm fully expecting IOI and SE to smooth out and fine tune these over the course of the game's evolution.
Firstly the in game shotguns:
At the moment there are only two shotguns in the game the first is called the Bartoli 12g and is loosely, I stress loosely for most of these, based upon the Italian Benelli M3…
Aesthetics:
The Bartoli 12g is aesthetically close-ish to its real world counterpart despite looking slightly out of proportion. I suppose this is to make it fit where 47s hands are animated to hold both shotguns; however neither seems effective as his hands still clip through each one. The stock of the shotgun in game is essentially straight after the initial slope of the receiver. In reality you’ll notice that almost all of the stocks are angled slightly downwards to give the shooter a better sight picture. You’ll notice in game when 47 aims he’s not actually looking down the sights. Absolution actually did a pretty good job with animating their mock Mossberg 500 and with a little polish; Hitman 2016 will do the same. Beyond simply fine tuning the design of the shotgun as well as 47’s animations for holding it, not much else is needed here aesthetically speaking.
Performance:
The shot group could be much tighter. In reality, shotguns aren’t meant to be purely point blank weapons as many video games imply. With 00 Buckshot (about 9 projectiles in each shell) the effective range (which is to say it is still consistently lethal within this range) is up to about 40 meters. With slugs that range is extended to about 120 meters. Basically whenever a gamer complains that shotgun’s are OP, it’s because they are. The real world M3 holds 8 rounds while the Bartoli 12g only holds 6.
Possible Accessories:
There are a plethora of accessories for this style of shotgun ranging from stocks, side saddles, spas conversion kits, suppressors, rail mounts (replacing the normal fore-grip,) lights, lasers and scopes for said rail mounts, and extended magazine tubes.
There is a new device called a stick loader which has been adopted by militaries across the planet. It is essentially a magazine for shotguns, and reduces the need to load shells individually. It’d be neat to see this as a purchasable upgrade for the shotguns in game.
Below is a video of American Jerry Miculek demonstrating stick loaders. He’s a renowned world record holder for several shooting events.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXkyEbrqNGw
Having multiple ammo types goes without saying.
00 buck for standard load (9 projectiles)
Slugs for additional range and damage (1 projectile,)
Defender Shells for medium range and incredible stopping power (1 slug with 3 pellets in front of it.)
If you want to get really creative, there are additional rounds that various militaries employ such as the grenade rounds which include armor piercing, HE, and fragmentation shells. This turns a shotgun like the AA12 for example, into a 32 round mini grenade launcher.
Then of course there’s Dragon’s Breath which has been around for several decades.
All of these ammo types would be acceptable between either of the games shotguns since they’re the same caliber.
The second shotgun in the game is called the ICA Enram HV and is based upon the American Kel Tec KSG.
Aesthetics:
Aesthetically and functionally there are a great many things wrong with the ICA Enram HV. To start, it’s just such a depressingly poor imitation of its real world counterpart and really should have been researched more thoroughly even if the plan had been to create a fantasy shotgun. As has been pointed out before the backup sights are loosely based upon the Magpul MBUS sights as can be seen here.
The problem is that the sights are mounted both backwards and in reverse, a mistake that you really have to go out of your way to make. If this were done in real life it would make the sights unusable, since the idea is to create an image of a circle with the post symmetrically in the center of it.
An additional feature of these sights for future reference is that they are not removed when a scope is mounted (hence MBUS - Magpul Back Up Sights.) They are instead folded down and held with a spring, allowing them to be deployed as backup sights should the scope fail. This applies to each weapon that they added these sights to.
Another major design flaw of the Enram HV is that in real life its receiver is actually in the stock resulting in its compact size. Shells do not eject out of the right side of the shotgun, nor is it loaded from the bottom in front of the trigger assembly. Instead, shells are loaded and ejected downwards from the bottom of the stock.
The shotgun has two 7 round magazine tubes making for 14+1 rounds total, as opposed to the 10 currently in game.
Overall the design of the ICA Enram is rather poor, making it look clunky and unappealing compared to the KSG, not to mention that stupid blue color.
Performance:
I’ve the same ballistic criticisms with this as the other shotgun since they’re both the same caliber. In theory, the Bartoli Shotgun should be more accurate due to it's longer barrel.
Possible Accessories:
There’s great opportunity here for customization including most everything listed for the previous shotgun with the exception of stocks. The stock of this shotgun is not interchangeable since it houses the receiver. Additionally the KSG can accept a double side saddle, muzzle break, rail mounted lights, lasers and scopes as well as “specifically” rail mounted fore-grips unlike the M3 (which needs to have the entire fore-grip replaced to mount a rail.)
Ammo types: the same previously listed.Fore-grips: These increase the ease with which the shooter can rack the next round, potentially increasing rate of fire as well as the ability to control recoil. There are several possibilities here such as angled fore-grips
Vertical Fore-grips
Loop or Strap grips
This shotgun has recently been adapted to accommodate suppressors as well.
I’ll provide detailed breakdowns of accessories at a later date.
The In Game SMGs:
We’ll start with the ICA Tac-SMG, which is loosely based upon the American Magpul FMG-9 (folding machine gun.) There are other iterations of it as well such as its predecessor, the Ares FMG, and a porotype variant of the Russian PP90. The FMG-9 is a rapidly deployable and ultra-concealable prototype weapon which never went into full production. Perfect for 47 wouldn’t you say? As the weapon is built around a Glock 18, it’s chambered in 9mm and features a 32 or 33 round magazine but could also accept a 10, 15, or 18 round magazines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq2YnexkdUw
Aesthetics:
Well right off the bat the Tac-SMG has the same problem as the ICA Enram HV with the sights being on backwards and in reverse and similarly 47 doesn’t bring the sights to his eyes. The FMG-9 cannot support a full sized vertical fore-grip since that would impede its ability to fold up. The flash hider is a bit much for something like this and really wouldn’t accomplish anything with the 9x19 round, but it could be argued that this SMG would accept one. The current model appears to have one of the 18 round or less magazines but is given a 25 round magazine capacity. The weapon is meant to feature a 33 round magazine. Aside from those things and the hideous blue color, this is pretty much spot on aesthetically. It would be really neat if they added an animation for deploying it like in Modern Warfare 3 and several animations done by the modding community.
Performance:
I’d argue that since the FMG-9 is meant to be deployed from concealment (and is basically a Glock 18 in disguise) it might be prudent to categorize it with the other pistols in the “concealed weapon” tab for mission planning. I mentioned the magazine capacity discrepancies already. The ballistics of the ICA Tac-SMG are a bit rough. It needs to do more damage at close range and have slightly less recoil with a more sensative trigger and fire-rate. It currently take 3 bursts, which is to say 9 round in the chest, or one burst and 3 rounds in the head, to kill an NPC. The damage drop off for this would be pretty significant however since its effective range is only about 80-90 meters.
Possible Accessories:
There’s not much customization that can be done with the FMG-9. It can accept a scope, different magazines, and possibly certain lights or micro lasers in front of the sight (mounted on top.) You could argue that it could also take muzzle compensators or flash hiders in addition to the suppressor if it had an extended barrel. If the notion that it’s meant to be deployable is eliminated then yes, you could potentially add vertical fore-grips or lights/lasers to that point under the barrel, but that essentially renders the entire weapon irrelevant as there are much better choices for SMGs out there. One idea could be to give it the option of a “conversion” kit. One of these conversions could be a concealable variant that allows 47 to use the FMG in place of a pistol as a concealed weapon, while the other “conversion” could be more permanent, allowing it to accommodate a 33 round magazine, grip and the other accessories but moving it into the category of an un-concealable weapon. At present there’s no reason to choose it in game over the rifle or shotgun.
Ammo types:
All of the 9mm weapons in the game could be fitted with these.
Ball ammo – standard damage etc. limited penetration
Armor piercing – High velocity, possible range increase, penetrate armored opponents and light cover.
Hollow Point – Increased energy transfer = better damage to flesh but no penetration of cover or armor. Could
possibly stagger an armored target but wouldn’t cause much injury.Low velocity – Less damage, less penetration, less range, extremely low recoil with high control-ability and accuracy, lower noise signature
There are more advanced forms of ammunition out there but these four are the most common and available all over the world. They can pretty safely be added for each firearm in the game, albeit in their respective caliber, aside from the shotguns which have their own set of unique ammunition.
The HX – 10
The HX – 10 is based upon the real world German Heckler & Koch UMP 45. It comes in both .45 and .40 calibers, giving it more stopping power than the traditional 9mm SMGs such as the MP5 etc.
Aesthetics:
In the game it looks a bit like they combined the HK UMP with features from the Sig Sauer MPX, which btw is one of the first guns I’ll suggest as an addition to the game. Details to be added later.
There’s really nothing wrong with how the HX – 10 looks, at all. It’s probably one of the more polished weapons. The sights are oriented correctly, 47 actually looks like he “might” be using them when you aim with it, etc.
Performance:
The magazine capacity is correct. Since it is in either .45 or .40 calibers it definitely should have more recoil than the Tac-SMG. Really my only complaint with it is the ballistics. The in game fire rate is way too high. In reality it actually has a very low cyclic rate since there are only 25 rounds and each round recoils a fair amount. There are three fire modes: single shot, 2 round burst, and full auto.
(Skip to 0:23 seconds in this video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faQDnLD-rmk
Its effective range is roughly 100 meters, so the range in game should be extended. Last, the damage should match that of the ICA19 TAC pistols. A 2 round burst should down most NPCs at this stage in the game unless body armor is added.
Possible Accessories:
The HX-10 or HK UMP 45 should be able to accommodate scopes, suppressors, lights, lasers, various fore-grips of all sorts, as well as the ammo variations listed above although in .45 or .40 calibers. The folding stock is not really interchangeable though arguably it could be.
The In Game Assault Rifles:
The first assault rifle, called the “Fusil G2” in game, is based upon the traditional AR-15 style of rifle. There are a wide variety of different AR15 style rifles in the world but this one resembles the traditional Armalite M15. The odd thing about calling it the “Fusil G2” is that the standard French assault rifle, called Fusil d'Assaut de la Manufacture d'Armes de Saint-Étienne or FAMAS for short, also has a variant simply called the Fusil G2. To make it stranger, the designers added the FAMAS’s hand guard to the AR15, which to my knowledge doesn’t exist but isn’t necessarily a bad idea on the designers part.
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AR15s can be chambered in wide range of calibers, the lowest and most common being the 5.56x45 or .223 rounds.
Aesthetics:
Other than the amalgamation of the AR15 with the FAMAs, there’s really nothing out of the ordinary here. I will note that most modern iterations of the AR15 have done away with the traditional front sight post and replaced them with flip up sights. This is because the fixed front sight being a part of the gas block reduces the ease with which the weapon can be cleaned and additionally obstructs the sight picture for most scopes. One thing that does bother me a little about this rifle is the way 47 holds it when he aims. Griping the weapon by the magazine well is not unheard of and there are even accessories called mag-well grips which aid in this. This grip is fine for smaller caliber weapons such as the SMGs; however it would be very unstable and largely inaccurate for the Fusil G2/AR15. Pictures below illustrate some of the more professional grips. I understand why this was done, since the same animation can be used for both rifles thus far, but I hope the devs are open to fleshing animations out a bit more.
The C-Clamp is generally considered the most reliable as it’s the fastest way of getting the heavy muzzle on target consistently.
Even with vertical fore-grips the c-clamp is used with the grip simply acting as a stop for the hand.
The Mag-Well grip, as appears in the game, is largely only used by inexperienced shooters or in emergencies when a magazine change is imminent.
Lastly there’s the Zero Sterling Grip which provides a very stable platform for recoil control and accuracy on the move but can get caught on equipment etc. so is largely unused by military and law enforcement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CptrBPTjuTs
Performance:
It annoys me that it is given a 2 round burst instead of single / auto as most AR15s don’t accommodate burst fire since you can effectively burst with trigger discipline on full auto. Additionally the recoil in game and sheer amount of damage lead me to conclude that it’s meant to be in a larger caliber such as 6.8 Remington. There’s nothing wrong with having it in this caliber but the weapon behaviors would change drastically from caliber to caliber. More details to follow. If it is indeed in this caliber then recoil and spread pattern wouldn’t necessarily need to be changed, however the range and damage at range would be vastly increased.
Possible Accessories:
This is probably the single most customizable weapon in the world.
It can accommodate everything from stocks, grips, fore-grips, suppressors, different barrels, triggers, lights, lasers, high capacity magazines, scopes, heavier buffer springs, over gassing, under gassing, and more. You could include multiple caliber conversions to get the Fusil G2 to behave differently. For example, a 5.56 variant would have much less recoil and more controlled spread than the present Fusil G2, but less damage and heavy damage drop off at range. A 300 blackout variant would be ideal for CQC and suppressors as it would deal high damage with very low recoil and high accuracy out to about 100 meters but a very limited range beyond that. A 6.8 Remington or 6.5 Creedmoor would behave similar to the present in game weapon but with much higher damage and accuracy at range. There can also be conversions to turn it into a single shot long range marksman rifle in the .308 caliber or higher.I’d recommend the following accessories for customization in addition to scopes etc. which I’ll detail separately.
The 4 basic ammo types
-Fore- grips including an angled grip, mag-well grip and stubby vertical grip to increase controllability, accuracy and the speed that 47 can get on target, possibly without using the aim button. The mag-well grip would also increase the speed of reloads and could be used simultaneously with one of the others.
-Stocks such as the Magpul PRS to increase stability and accuracy while aiming
There are also stocks such as the Israeli FAB which feature a backup magazine.
-There can also be heavier buffer springs to reduce recoil
-Over gassed systems which increase the rate of fire but reduce accuracy
-Under gassed systems which decreases rate of fire but increases accuracy
-Compensators which can reduce muzzle climb and the noise signature
-Magazines such as the 100 round Beta C-Mag which appeared in Blood Money or Xproduct’s 50 round drum magazine.
Next we have the ICA Tac-4 AR Auto. This is loosely based upon the Israeli Weapons Industry Tavor. It is chambered in the 5.56 round only and should perform almost identically to the Fusil G2 if they are to share the same ammo type. There is however an X-95 Micro Tavor variant that comes in 9mm.
Aesthetics:
The flip up sights are mounted in the right order but backwards. Backup iron sights are oriented to fold down towards the shooter, otherwise they’d get in the way of the scope. This is a minor detail but still annoying since they don’t need to be there in the first place. As mentioned in other posts and as can be seen in the images above, the Tavor has built in iron sights which fold into its top rail. In addition to this and the blue color, the in game Tac-4 AR Auto looks a bit clunky and undetailed but is otherwise fine.
Performance:
I actually don’t have much of a problem with how this gun performs in game other than needing some simple fine tuning. I still think it needs a more sensitive trigger and smoother fire rate but without the seemingly random burst fire that it has now. As far as damage and accuracy go I think it’s appropriate, although it has slightly higher damage than I would expect from the caliber (without using hollow points that is.) This could be purely due to the burst fire. If the burst fire is eliminated in favor a more sensitive full auto it will be just fine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCHwAlC_JIQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufGGtCWPPQc
Possible Accessories:
-4 Basic ammo types
-The factory fore-end can be replaced with the ones shown below to accommodate rails and add grips, lights, lasers etc.
-All rail fore-grips as previously listed for the Fusil G2
-Scopes, suppressors and compensators as well as the possibility of different triggers.
Here’s an artist’s conception of the X95 prior to its release that I personally think looks pretty neat.
The Tavors generally do not accommodate high capacity magazines.
Weapon Problems continued in Part 2:
http://www.hitmanforum.com/t/current-in-game-weapon-problems-part-2/5618/1Animation & Melee Combat:
http://www.hitmanforum.com/t/animations-melee-combat-weapons/5613Long Term Weapon Additions:
http://www.hitmanforum.com/t/long-term-weapon-additions-to-the-game/5611/15NPC Tiered Injury System:
http://www.hitmanforum.com/t/npc-tiered-injury-system-ideas/5615
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Participants: 6